Inter-Religious Address
Stony Brook University (SUNY) with Q&A Session
Q&A SESSION MODERATED BY DR SUNITA
Q: How do you achieve the state of ihsaan? You spoke so eloquently on the seventeen characters, but what can we do during the day?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: Ihsaan is the state of moral excellence. It is not something that can be achieved in one day, one week, or one year; it takes a whole life to achieve, and not without struggling. One time I asked my guru, my shaykh, "I can count seventeen bad characteristics. I cannot count more, are there more?" He said, "Look my son, I was making seclusion by myself for nine months in Madinat al-Munawarra, only staying in one room and making meditation. I was able to count 167 bad characteristics that I had and needed to eliminate." We counted seventeen, but to think or meditate for one hour on yourself is better than 70 years of worship. Think, "What I did today? How I behaved towards my children or my husband?" Sit by yourself in a special room in your house, close your eyes and think. At that time you will see your mistakes of that day, and they are too many. Download from your heart what you have uploaded during the day. Technology is a good way to think about ourselves. There may be plenty of people in the audience who work in IT (Information Technology). There might be physicists here or doctors. Look at what you have here in this computer, a small chip that can store everything. We have a similar chip in our brain. Try to bring it back daily, you will find what you did there. This is how to struggle. If you don't like to say "good versus evil," look at it as "positive versus negative." Try to eliminate negativity. That is the way of everyone who is under the teaching of religion. In Hinduism don't they do seclusion and meditation? If you don't practice meditation, you will never achieve anything, only achieve how to pay your bills! There are bills for this life and for the Next Life. No one is thinking about the bills of the Next Life, and they might be more expensive there.
Q: I am a Muslim. When Shaytan was ordered by God to make sajdah to Adam (prostrate), he refused. If I was there looking at the power and glory of Almighty God, I would not refuse. Why did he choose to go against that order? If I was in his place, I would apply rational thinking. He was a worshipper of God and knows what God can do to him. Why then he took the action that would lead to punishment? In this life I didn't see God, but can realize Him through belief. By rational thinking, why did he choose the other side?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: This is a technical question in Islamic theology. I know many people in the audience might not be aware of some parts of it, and it is a discussion that can go on and on. You are right in asking this question and there are answers. I will summarize it quickly, as it might take books with footnotes. When God ordered Iblees, Satan, to make prostration to Adam, there is in theology, in Islamic principle, that al-amru fawqa 'l-adab, "the order is above discipline." A general might order a soldier to shoot, even though the soldier might know it is not an appropriate time to shoot. But the discipline is to shoot, don't question. Satan knows that God created Adam, and he must make prostration. But instead, he began to think, just for a blink of an eye, "I have been making prostration to my Lord for 2,000 years. How can I make prostration to anyone other than Him?" And it was in that blink of an eye that he rationalized how to disobey. You are supposed to follow the order. Who knows, perhaps you might have been rewarded. That is one aspect. Many scholars mention a hadith, kuntu nabiyyun wa Adam bayn ar-ruh wa 'l-jasad, "I (Prophet) was a prophet when Adam (a) was between soul and body (or clay and body)." And in theology they say that the Light of Prophet (s) was in the forehead of Adam. When Satan was ordered to make sajdah, it was not to Adam, but to that heavenly Light. Satan knew that heavenly Light is Maqaam al-Mahmoud, the Praised and Glorified level that is not for angels but for humans only. He refused to make sajdah. And the third aspect is that God wanted to bring everyone to Earth. If there was no disobedience, no generations of Adam would have come to Earth. God wants life on this Earth. So you see, there are many different answers to this question.
Q: During your speech, you spoke about meditating on finding faults, things we struggle with. I am going to ask about things we do good. Why do you focus on things we struggle with?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: Why we don't think about what is good? Because everyone thinks about what is good and no one thinks what is wrong. That is why we emphasize what is bad. Goodness is easy to know, you don't need to count it. Thinking about what is good makes your ego arrogant, thinking, "I did this and that." Good people never say, "I did this," they hide it. They try to eliminate what wrong they did in themselves. Otherwise everyone would see themselves as really wise ones. There is no need to count the good, it is already there. Why should we worry about it? We should worry about the things that make us imperfect. In Islamic theology you look at yourself as bad and others as good. At first, you cannot teach because you don't have a certificate from your teachers. They will say how do you teach what is good when you aren't good yet?
Q: (A rabbi) If you would just speak on the role of joy in prayer?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: Qurratu `aynee fee 's-salaat. The Prophet said, "The best of time is when I am in prayers." So people go into their prayers and their heart struggles not to have too much gossip. As when you are praying behind the rabbi, priest, or imaam, you are thinking about how much money is in the bank or stock, that is not joy. Joy is when you eliminate anything from your heart except to focus on the Divine.
Q: Lots of wisdom, so many questions. You mentioned that we should be introspective, and one exit on the highway is anger, the main one. I have heard of righteous anger, as when Jesus threw out the money changers of the house of the Lord. Is there anytime a person can be righteously angry?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: Allah said in Holy Qur'an that, as Jesus did, one does not like anyone to express his anger except when in righteousness, when you have been oppressed. But that is not for any other kind of anger, only the righteous anger of those who have been oppressed; they must express themselves in order to correct the situation.
Q: I am from Pakistan. My question is that in Sufism people leave society and go and meditate. Is that not counter to what Islam tells you? Doesn't Islam teach to live in society and not leave it?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: I think what you have been told is mere propaganda against Sufism. Allah gives us goodness in this life and in the Next. As Allah said in Holy Qur'an, "You have to work for this life and for the Next." You cannot sit in the mosque and be lazy. Even those who are laid off should go and dig in their gardens to show they are making an effort. You have to show you are working for this life and the Next. Perhaps some people are blaming Sufism for this, when Sufism has nothing to do with it. In tasawwuf, you have to be educated in Shari`ah and in spirituality. Imam Malik (r) said, "I have studied with 600 teachers on spirituality (tazkiyyat an-nafs) and with 300 teachers on Shari`ah." You cannot sit in the mosque and be lazy, saying, "I am not doing anything, I want to be a Sufi." That is not correct, so study well.
Q: I am sure you agree that Islam encourages curiosity. Here is a verse I will read. Can you please give the interpretation?
اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا
Allahu alladhee khalaqa sab`a samaawaatin wa mina 'l-ardi mithlahunna
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. (at-Talaq, 65:12)
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: God created seven Heavens and as many Earths. That is to know that God is Omnipotent and knows all things. Why did God not create fifteen levels? That is seven layers of Divine Presence and seven levels of livelihood. It doesn't mean seven planets similar to this earth, but there might be millions of planets. There are 70 billions stars in this galaxy. There might be in it many planets similar to this earth. This is the translation you read, but this is where theology is important. When you go to the spiritual interpretation, it means seven layers of heavenly worship within your heart, and seven layers of worldly life within yourself. That means Allah knows everything you do, He is closer to you than your jugular vein! There are seven different levels that Allah is going to question us about on Judgment Day. This is the interpretation from what I have studied and there are many other interpretations on this verse.
Q: Basically Qur'an is regarding praying to Allah and self-development. I just came to realize that hardships are ways of bettering yourself and to raise your ranks. When you pray for goodness in general, is it wrong to ask Allah to not give you hardship, or to elevate you without hardship?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham: Of course God wants you to always ask for goodness in this life and in the Next. So to ask for hardships to be taken away and seek ease is acceptable. He said,ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ idu`onee astajib lakum, "call on Me, I will respond to you." Therefore, you might not see the fruit of what you are asking for right away. And if not in this life, you will see a good return of your asking later, in the Hereafter. If you are in prayer, or driving your car, and it comes to your heart, ask God to relieve difficulties, as in the verse:
وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَقُولُ رَبَّنَا آتِنَا فِي الدُّنْيَا حَسَنَة ً وَفِي الآخِرَةِ حَسَنَة ً وَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّار
wa minhum man yaqoolu rabbanaa aatina fee ad-dunyaa hasanatan wa fee al-aakhirati hasanatan wa qinaa `adhaaba an-naar.
And of them there are some who say, "Our Lord! Give us in this world what is good and in the Hereafter what is good, and save us from the torment of the Fire! (Al-Baqarah 2:201)
May Allah give us good in this life and the Next, and protect us from Hellfire. We hope Allah will save us, all human beings, from the Fire!