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Mawlana Shaykh Nazim’s Dialogue With a Chief Rabbi

Shaykh Nour Mohamad Kabbani

21 March 2024 Fenton Zawiya, Michigan, USA

From Mawlana Shaykh Nazim's Personal Notes

A`oodhu billahi ‘s Sami` al-Aleem min ash-Shaytaani 'r-rajeem. Bismillaahi 'r-Rahmaani 'r-Raheem.

Alhamdulillahi Rabbi 'l-`Alameen, wa ’s-salaatu wa ’s-salaamu `alaa Sayyidina Muhammadin wa `alaa aalihi wa sahbihi ajma`een.

As-salaamu `alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh.

Mashaa-Allah, may Allah (swt) always keep us in majaalis ad-dhikr, the associations of dhikrullah. Every time you sit down and mention Allah (swt)’s Holy Name, remember Allah (swt), you are immediately in His Presence. You have immediately uncovered that veil that we have put upon ourselves, the veil of dunya. Once you remember Allah (swt) sincerely, you slowly remove the veil of this world. May Allah (swt) always allow us to be in His Presence. Every majlis becomes majaalis ad-dhikr once you mention Allah (swt)’s Holy Name and once you bring salawat on Rasoolullah (s). Alhamdulillah.

Today I opened the book to see what to read. Of course, I have no knowledge. My knowledge is basically what I read from our master’s words. He is telling a story of when he was invited to an interfaith conference in Italy. That suhbah was dated in ‘98 so it was probably in the 90’s. That big interfaith conference was attended by people of all religions and nations and races. They introduced me to the chief rabbi of Italy. He was the one who asked to meet me.

The Chief Rabbi wanted to meet Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) and get to know him. He said, I sat and talked to him. While he was talking to him he noticed two people with suits. He turned to the Chief Rabbi and asked, “Who are these two men?” He said, “They are bodyguards.The Italian government assigned them for my safety and protection.” Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) said, “You are the Chief Rabbi. I am sorry to say but people like you with your religious stature have to have the highest faith, not the other way around.” How do you get to the top? By `ilm of Allah (swt). How do you ascend? By knowing your Creator. The more you know Him, the higher your stature becomes in His Presence and among people. You don’t need a diploma in order for people to respect you or to think high of you. The more you know Allah (swt), the more He will raise you.

The one on top reaches the top position through `ilm. That scholars or `alims have to be humble ones because when you go on the minbar or on a seat, it doesn’t mean that you have become the knower of them all, the highest knower in the world. No, you have to be humble.

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) said, “The likes of you should know that Allah (swt) protects His servants.” What did He say to Rasoolullah (s)?

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَإِن لَّمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُۥ وَٱللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِى ٱلْقَوْمَ ٱلْكَـٰفِرِينَ

O Messenger. proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith. (Suratu ’l-Ma’idah, 5:67)

W’allahu ya`simooka min an-naas,“Allah (swt) will protect you from those who intend harm to you.” What did Rasoolullah (s) say or do? He told the bodyguards that were around him, “You don’t have to do that work anymore.” The higher you are in faith, the less bodyguards you need. Look around. Have you seen the motorcades? Whenever I see a motorcade, I want to see something better. I think the best motorcade is the American one. That’s what I have noticed but it might be something else. I have not looked at the motorcades of the Muslim rulers, the Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish--why do you need all of these motorcades? How many ambulances do they have? I counted at least ten. So many ambulances, motorcycles, cars, trucks, armored vehicles and buses for what? That means your faith has slumped. You have no faith. That is my view. The views of other people can be different.

If you have faith, as Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) told this rabbi at the conference, “The likes of you with high stature in their religion should know that Allah (swt) protects His servant,” as Rasoolullah (s) was protected. Actually, I read that when some people came across this verse, they accepted Islam. Why? If I tell you, “Go out. I will protect you. Don’t worry about anything,” do you believe me or not? If you believe me, you will do it. If you don’t believe me, you won’t do it.

Rasoolullah (s) was the biggest believer in Qur’an. He believed every single word. If he was lying or making up God’s Words himself, he would not believe what he is saying. What am I saying to myself? No. God protects me. Is it my words? If it’s my words, there’s a limit, but it’s not.

Rasoolullah (s) was the biggest believer in the Words of God, the biggest believer in Qur’an. He said, “I don’t need any protection. God is protecting me.” That means he believed in what was coming to him. He is the biggest believer. His act confirmed the words. The Qur’an is true and he is a true prophet. Some people accepted Islam because of those four words, Wallahu ya’simooka min an-naas, “Allah will protect you from people.” If you are doing goodness for humanity, for the Creation of the Lord Almighty, Allah (swt) will not make you in need of motorcades. But people’s faith has slumped.

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) is saying in this suhbah that if a common person with average faith took a few people around him to protect him, I would not have criticized him. But with your stature, I don’t accept you taking guards around yourself. The Chief Rabbi said, “I will let them go,” and the next day he let them go. That means he was listening.

There are some people who are arrogant and proud, even if they hear the Truth, they don’t accept it. Actually, they argue against it. Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) sensed that this rabbi was somebody who accepted the Truth.

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) continued, the next day I sat with him and spoke to him about a lot of things. The main thing I said was, “You are from the Ahlu ‘l-Kitab, the People of the Book. A book was given to you. How do you believe that Moses is a Nabi? How did you believe, from what way?” The Chief Rabbi was from the People of the Book. They have their Torah. Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) asked him, “How did you believe that Moses is a Prophet, from which way? Did a message from the Heavens come to your ears or to your heart that, ‘Moses is My Prophet, therefore believe in him’?” He said, “No.” “Did an angel come to you and tell you Moses is a prophet and so you believed?” He said, “No, I did not.” “How did you believe? How did you get this proof or evidence?” He said, “From the books that we have gotten, from the knowledge that was inherited from century to century. That’s how we know that he was a prophet, a messenger.” Moses, peace be upon him.

The Jewish nation believed that he was a messenger through their books. They didn’t see him. The ones who are living now read their books and stories that came to them from father to grandfather to grandson to great grandson through the centuries.

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) asked him, “Do you have any other evidence to prove that Moses was a messenger?” He said, “No, only from the books and the stories that we have inherited.” He asked, “You don’t have any doubts in the stories that you’ve heard?” “No, we have no doubts, it goes back four thousand years.” Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) told him, “By the same methodology, Muslims believe Muhammad (s) is a Messenger by the books they received, the stories they’ve heard, by the people who lived in this time and told about his miracles. We did not see Muhammad (s) as you did not see Moses.” That Jewish rabbi did not see Moses. It was 4,000 years ago. We did not see Muhammad (s). It was 1,500 years ago. How did we believe? From the books. How did they believe? From the books.

Did Moses have miracles? Yes, he did. How? People talked about it, they wrote it down and it passed through the centuries that have come or the generations that have come. Muhammad (s) had miracles. People talked about it and they wrote it down and it passed down to the people nowadays. So, he asked, “What makes you believe that the stories you’ve gotten from the incidents or events or miracles of Moses, peace be upon him, 4,000 years ago to now are correct and the stories we’ve got from Muhammad (s)’s miracles and events and circumstances that happened at his time are incorrect? What is your litmus test? Why do you believe what happened 4,000 years ago is true and you are following your book? The same thing with the Christians, they believed what happened 2,000 years ago is true and they are following their book. Why don’t you believe what happened to Muhammad is true and the Book that he brought which we are following is true? Why do you believe this story but you don’t believe that story? What made you deny the latter story?”

Look how Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) uses the mind and analytical methodology. “I say this is a table and this is also a table. Why do you believe this is a table but that’s not a table? What made it different? Muhammad (s) did not read or write. How did he tell us about Moses and his staff? Where did we hear about it? Where did the people of the desert hear about the splitting of the sea by the staff of Moses, peace be upon him? Which storybooks did they read? Most of them did not read or write. Where did they bring it from? Where did they bring all the nine miracles of Musa (a)? Al-yad wa’l-aasa wa’l-qummal wa’l-jarraad wa ‘l-dafadi`a wa ‘d-damm, the white hand, the staff, the lice, the locusts, the frogs and the blood, and so many others, where did they hear about them? Why don’t you believe in that? Why the discrepancy? Is there a convincing foundation for you for this differentiation or this distinction that you prefer your stories of Musa (a) and believe in it but you reject the stories of Muhammad and don’t believe in them?”

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) said, “We believe in Moses and the Torah. Why don’t you believe in Muhammad (s) and the Qur’an? I say without hesitation, Laa ilaaha illa-Llah Musa Kaleemullah. I declare that there is no lord except the Lord of Heavens, Allah (swt) and that Musa is His Prophet. I declare that God spoke to Musa. I declare that Musa is a Messenger. Why don’t you declare that Muhammad was His Messenger as well? Why don’t you declare, Laa ilaaha illa-Llah, there is no god but Allah (swt) and Muhammad is His Messenger? Why don’t you declare that?”

Like I said, if somebody accepts the truth, he will say it. Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) sensed that in him. What did Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) do? He just gave him `ilm, knowledge. When a human being starts filling up with true knowledge, he becomes more humble. What is the stem of wheat called? The stalk, and at the top are the kernels. When the stalk is empty of grain, it stands straight up. What happens when it fills up, agricultural engineer? It bows down.

When a human being is filled up with true knowledge, he becomes more humble because like the stalk--that true knowledge makes him heavy and he bows down. When you are laden with true knowledge, you bow down and accept.

Mawlana Shaykh Nazim (q) is saying, all the problems in the world nowadays, not only nowadays but from beginning to end stem from that rejection. If the Yahud accepted the last Messenger, there would be no war, there would be no problems, there would be no disagreements, if they accept Muhammad (s) and his stories as they accept Moses and his stories, if they accept the Book of Muhammad as they accept the Book of Musa (as). That is the root cause of problems between Jews and Muslims, between non-Muslims and Muslims, between Persians and Muslims, between Romans and Muslims. The problem was that they did not accept Rasool ‘l-`Aaza, the Last and Final Messenger. When they accepted the last and final Messenger, enemies became the best of friends. The enemies had no more disagreements with them. They lived in peace.

Why don’t you accept? What do you lose by accepting Muhammad as a Messenger? Do you lose your shirt? You don’t lose your shirt. Why should you lose your shirt? What do you lose when you accept Muhammad (s)? That is the root cause of all the problems. That’s why you see so many people entering into Islam nowadays. I’ve been seeing some rappers entering into Islam. Lil Jon? Who else entered into Islam? Some professors in California at the beginning of Ramadan. When people enter into Islam, they have no more problems with Islam anymore. When they accept Muhammad as a Messenger, all the problems with Yahood will finish, but they don’t. All of the difficulties in this world are because of this rejection. If they accept, the issue will finish.

May Allah (swt) forgive us. May Allah (swt) guide humanity to accept as they accepted Musa (a) and his Book, as they accepted Jesus and his Book. Look into the personality of Muhammad (s). Look into his Book and you will see that they are all on the same level. They’re all the same. They are all inviting Creation, all inviting humanity to the pleasure of their Lord, to do what pleases their Lord and their Lord will please them here and Hereafter. But they don’t, and that’s because of Shaytan. Shaytan is in the middle. “If you accept, you will lose this. If you accept, your position will go away.” They are after dunya. When they are after dunya, Shaytan is playing with their hearts. When they leave dunya and come to dhikrullah, they are with the Divine Presence and there are no more problems between them.

Mawlana said, “This Chief Rabbi did say, ‘Laa ilaaha illa-Llah’ and he did say, ‘Muhammadun Rasoolullah.’ When he said that, my mark was with him. If I witnessed him saying these two Shahadas, I am responsible for him in the end. I am stronger than Shaytan and Shaytan will not take him from me.”

He is in the hands of Mawlana Shaykh Nazim. At the end it is his responsibility to take him to the Divine Presence.

May Allah (swt) forgive us. May Allah (swt) guide people to understand who is Muhammad (s). Read the true stories that have come through isnad, sound chain, sound references and look at the Holy Qur’an. You will find out that Musa (a), `Isa (a), Muhammad (s), Nuh (a) and `Ibrahim (a) have all said, “Worship Allah (swt), you have no lord other than Him.”

Ameen, yaa Rabbi 'l-`Alameen

Wa bi hurmati 'l-habeeb, wa bi sirri Surat al-Fatihah.


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